Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/23/1998 03:40 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                       
                  February 23, 1998                                            
                      3:40 P.M.                                                
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman                                                 
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman                                              
Senator Loren Leman                                                            
Senator Bert Sharp                                                             
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator John Torgerson                                                         
Senator Robin Taylor                                                           
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                     
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 262                                                            
"An Act relating to regulation of hunting and trapping and to the              
definition of  sustained yield.'"                                              
                                                                               
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                          
                                                                               
SENATE BILL NO. 180                                                            
"An Act relating to state rights-of-way."                                      
                                                                               
     - PASSED CSSB180(RES) FROM COMMITTEE                                      
                                                                               
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
                                                                               
SB 262 - No previous action to record.                                         
                                                                               
SB 180 - See Resources minutes dated 2/9/98.                                   
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
Ms. Mel Krogseng, Staff                                                        
Senator Robin Taylor                                                           
State Capitol Bldg.                                                            
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 262.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Ken Taylor, Deputy Director                                                
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                              
Department of Fish and Game                                                    
P.O. Box 25526                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99802-5526                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 262.                                            
                                                                               
Mr. Brett Huber, Staff                                                         
Senator Rick Halford                                                           
State Capitol Bldg.                                                            
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 180.                                       
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-13, SIDE A                                                             
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
                  SB 262 - MANAGEMENT OF HUNTING                               
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to              
order at 3:40 p.m. and announced SB 262 to be up for consideration.            
                                                                               
MS. MEL KROGSENG, Staff to Senator Taylor, sponsor, said that SB
262 restricts the Department from curtailing traditional access for            
hunting and trapping unless a specific means of access is causing              
biological harm to a game population in the area where the                     
restriction is to apply and the recovery of the wildlife population            
requires the access restriction.  She stated that some Alaska                  
license holders are outraged by the Department's adoption of a                 
preservationist philosophy which opposes consumptive uses by                   
restricting access.  At the fall 1995 Board of Game meeting, the               
Department of Fish and Game urged the Board of Game to close 236               
square miles to Alaska's hunters.  The Department's own biologists             
testified that there was no biological problem, no justification,              
nor actual conflict among user groups in the area.  The                        
Department's director admitted that the only issue was one based               
solely on a misperception resulting from purposeful misinformation             
and disinformation promulgated by animal rights extremists.                    
                                                                               
The Board of Game is now politically compromised and has developed             
a pattern of establishing controlled use areas which deny user                 
group access without any biological justification.  To get politics            
out of wildlife management, the legislature must require that all              
wildlife regulations be necessary and biologically justified.  The             
bill also defines sustained yield with a definition that is                    
consistent with the definition contained in SB 250 with one small              
exception, that this one includes fish.                                        
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG added that there is a proposed amendment that deals               
with four areas that were missed inadvertently in the bill.                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how they intend to deal with existing                   
controlled use areas.                                                          
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG answered that nothing in the bill eliminates those and            
there was a provision in it saying they would remain in effect.                
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought they were historically used as                
methods and means restrictions long before we had the arguments                
about access, but they may not be individually biologically                    
justified in terms of that particular area.  They are tools of                 
allocating different types of use.                                             
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG said it seems that the Department uses access                     
restriction as a means of managing people rather than managing                 
animals which is their charge.                                                 
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought the State could restrict access               
involved in hunting on private land; however, when there haven't               
always been snow machines and three wheelers.  He thought they were            
trying to target increased proliferation of accessed based                     
regulations without biological basis.                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN asked who determines the criteria in the description             
of a controlled use area.                                                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD answered the Board of Game.  He said to remember              
that there were also aircraft restrictions.  You can't hunt moose              
with any aid of aircraft within the McGrath controlled use area.               
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG said the bill doesn't prohibit the Department from                
curtailing access if it's biologically necessary.  Mr. Reglin,                 
ADF&G told her there was so much controversy because of the McNeal             
River Sanctuary over hunting bears in that area that the Board                 
chose to make their recommendation based on nothing that had to do             
with biology.                                                                  
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if allocation was biology.                              
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG answered not to her way of thinking.                              
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought the McGrath controlled use area               
for aircraft was an allocation decision.                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN said he is concerned that the Board may be                       
considering adopting a policy on restricting the use of these                  
vehicles for hunting when there is a real possibility that                     
conflicts may exist because of other users of them.  There is no               
clear evidence that it was the hunters.                                        
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG agreed that there are many users of off-road vehicles             
that are non-hunters and they could very well be what is causing               
the controversy.                                                               
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP thought that leaving the meat on the bone in certain             
areas and transporting it was a problem, also.                                 
                                                                               
Number 170                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. KEN TAYLOR, Deputy Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,            
opposed SB 262 which is an act relating to regulation of hunting               
and trapping and the definition of sustained yield.  It would limit            
the authority of the Board of Game to adopt regulations only when              
necessary for the biological management of game and would prohibit             
the Board from restricting the methods of access in any area, the              
traditional means of access to take or transport game in that area,            
and it would define the principal of sustained yield.  Section one             
essentially removes the Board's responsibility to allocate                     
resources by restricting their authority to adopt regulations only             
when necessary for the biological management of game.  Among the               
regulations currently on the books that are not necessary for                  
biological management are methods and means restrictions,                      
accommodations for disabled persons, subsistence preference,                   
emergency openings to allow additional harvest, prohibiting live               
capture, public safety, rescinding resident tag requirements,                  
classification of game, salvaging meat, defense of life and                    
property, sale of game, scientific and educational permits, and                
more.  Although regulations of this type are not necessary for                 
biological management, they insure a more equitable use of a common            
resource, improve the quality of hunting, prevent waste and misuse             
of game, and contribute to the safety and general welfare of                   
Alaskans.                                                                      
                                                                               
Section two prevents the Board from closing any area to a                      
particular means of access until after significant biological harm             
has occurred to a game population and the recovery is unlikely                 
without a restriction and active management measures have been                 
implemented to aid the recovery of the population.  Waiting until              
after significant harm has occurred prevents the Board from                    
managing wildlife on a sustained yield basis.  Sustained yield                 
management attempts to prevent significant harm from occurring by              
anticipating population declines and acting to stop them.                      
Repressing the Board until after harm has occurred would result in             
long term loss of hunting opportunity, because harvest would have              
to be curtailed to allow populations to recover.                               
                                                                               
Number 260                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he would change his position on section 2 if            
the finding would not only find that it resulted in significant                
biological harm, but that it could result in imminent biological               
harm.  He agreed with him that we don't want to create a problem,              
then say oh, we have a problem, and then fix it.                               
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR said if they could anticipate it, it would be more                  
palatable.  There are three things in this bill that are bad for               
wildlife management - limiting it to biological management, because            
that is really a Department function.  The Board's function is                 
allocative; they manage people.  Limiting regulations to only                  
biological management, you're pretty well defeating the purpose of             
regulations to begin with.  Trying to define sustained yield is                
another issue.                                                                 
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked what he thought about the access issue.                    
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR said that every place the Board restricts methods of                
access are either in a controlled use area or in a defined                     
management area.  There are a few in refuges and critical habitat              
areas, as well.  These are established by regulation and aren't                
normally subjected to legislative scrutiny.  If that were a                    
condition of this legislation, all of those that were developed                
would have to go before the legislature before they could be                   
established.  The Board does not establish very many, but they do              
consider a number of them.  It's the Department's position that                
that would be cumbersome for the legislature and not be in the                 
overall interests of doing it in an efficient manner.                          
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the controlled use areas are mostly by               
statute or regulation.                                                         
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR answered that the controlled use areas are mostly by                
regulation.  The areas done by statute are game sanctuaries,                   
refuges, and critical habitat areas.  For example, there are areas             
just south of Fairbanks where subunit 28 was divided up into a                 
number of controlled use and management areas to address the                   
various types of uses and access people wanted to have, like the               
Wood River Controlled Use Area for flying and horses only; the                 
Ferry Trail management area for ATV access; the Healy controlled               
use area which protects the Healy lignite communities from people              
discharging fire arms in their immediate vicinity (as it's a bow               
hunting only area).  There are about three dozen of those types of             
areas around the State. Three of them are pretty controversial.                
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if this bill repeals all those that were                
established by regulation in the past.                                         
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR said as he reads it, it does, although he needs to check            
with the Attorney General's office.  It says, "The Board of Game               
and the Department may not restrict a means of access."  Those                 
controlled use and management areas that are on the books right now            
do restrict access and there are no grandfather clauses in this                
bill.  He explained that the way these things have changed in the              
past is that as we go from one administration to the next, all the             
players change, the Boards change, areas get revisited.  Ones that             
don't work very well come up again.  They are all on a schedule to             
be reconsidered every two years.  Some of the latest ones that have            
sparked controversy haven't been up for reconsideration yet.                   
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what the Board did after discussion on Unit             
13 ATV access.                                                                 
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR said they established a subcommittee to study the                   
situation more closely.                                                        
                                                                               
Number 372                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP asked if the Board had ever rescinded any restricted             
use areas that they had established in the past.                               
                                                                               
MR. TAYLOR said he thought they had and he would look for him.  He             
knows they have renamed a number of them and modified boundaries               
and have changed some of the restrictions.                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he could think of one off hand.  The Clear               
Water controlled use area north of the Denali Highway and east of              
the Susitna River was a closed area.  It was later changed to a                
controlled use area open to hunting, but only by non-motorized                 
means.                                                                         
                                                                               
He said at some point the concern for what technology is doing is              
legitimate.  Now, if you can get across the water bodies, you can              
drive a Honda four-wheeler from Anchorage to Nome.  If there's not             
very many of them, it doesn't matter, but at some point there is a             
legitimate concern about how many there are.  It doesn't seem to               
hurt things that snow machines do it all the time.  He said they               
would keep this bill in the committee.  He thought it was not the              
intent of the sponsor to repeal all the existing ones.                         
                                                                               
MS. KROGSENG said there is no provision in the bill relating to                
existing controlled use areas.  She said there are 26 controlled               
use areas in the State.  The first was established in 1971; 13 were            
established prior to 1979, and nine have been established in the               
last eight years.                                                              
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD closed the hearing on SB 262.                                 
                                                                               
             SB 180 - STATE RIGHTS-OF-WAY: R.S. 2477                           
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SB 180 to be up for consideration.  He              
noted a proposed committee substitute that deals with a number of              
concerns brought up in the first hearing.  One is a new Section One            
which is findings and intent dealing with how R.S. 2477s are                   
managed and what happens in terms of location.  A dog sled trail               
has a lot less impact than a highway, for instance.  He reviewed a             
number of other corrections and changes.                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if they had decided to not insert "or a                    
municipal corporation with transportation powers" into section two             
on page 2, line 6.                                                             
                                                                               
MR. BRETT HUBER, Staff to Senator Halford, said he understands that            
these R.S. 2477s are the State's rights-of-way.  That's why they               
are only dealing with the Department of Transportation and Public              
Facilities.  It's in the DNR until they decide to bring it into a              
part of the State highway system.                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN said there was another question about the "public"               
having a right-of-way instead of the "State" on page 2, line 17.               
                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN moved to adopt the committee substitute, Luckhaupt               
2/19/98 0817\F,  to SB 180.  There were no objections and it was so            
ordered.                                                                       
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt amendment #1 which would delete the               
word "State" and insert "public" on page 2, line 17.  There were no            
objections and it was so ordered.                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked staff to check the spelling of some of the                 
place names.                                                                   
                                                                               
MR. HUBER said that he had checked the spelling with the RST g                 
atlas.                                                                         
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced a two minute at-ease at 4:20 p.m.                   
                                                                               
SENATOR SHARP moved to pass CSSB 180(RES) from committee with                  
individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so            
ordered.                                                                       
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that they did not include the limitation on             
conservation easements that was discussed because there wasn't any             
language from the Department of Transportaion and Public Facilities            
or the Department of Law that worked.  He had no objection to                  
adding the correct language.                                                   
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 4:25 p.m.                            
                                                                               
                                                                               

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